June 29, 1976

Executive Committee of the American Institute of Physics

Minutes of Meeting

Members Present: Philip M. Morse – Chairman, Robert T. Beyer, W. A. Fowler, L. W. Fredrick, W. W. Havens, Jr., H. William Koch, Sidney Millman, Jarus W. Quinn

Absent: Melba Phillips

Nonvoting Participants: Clifford E. Swartz

AIP Staff Present: H. William Koch, Director; Sidney Millman, Secretary; G. F. Gilbert, Treasurer; Lewis Slack, Assoc. Director for General Activities; R. H. Marks, Associate Director for Publishing; Dorothy M. Lasky, Assistant to the Director; Mary M. Johnson, Assistant to the Secretary

Chairman Morse called the meeting to order at 9:30 a.m.

1. Minutes

Upon motion made and passed without dissent, the minutes of the April 26, 1976, Executive Committee meeting were approved.

2. 1977 Subscription Prices and Page Charges

  1. 1977 Subscription Prices for AIP Journals

    Marks distributed a list of recommended subscription rates covering AIP journals for 1977 (copy attached as Exhibit A). Increases up to 10% over the 1976 rates for nonmember subscriptions were recommended in order to keep the net income from AIP journals at about the same level as in 1976. The increases will offset the drop in subscriptions. No increases were recommended for the member subscription rates even though the drop in member subscriptions is larger than that for nonmembers. He believed that the drop in nonmember subscriptions is probably not affected by the modest increases in rates. Compared to commercial journals, we are still a bargain when one considers the price per page which averages about l ½ cents.

    For Physics Today, we already had an increase from $18 to $24 last year and this is perhaps as far as we should go and, therefore, no increase was proposed. Havens noted that half the cost of maintaining an up-to-date member file is charged to PT. Koch also pointed out that copies of PT are still being sent to members of Congress and that the reception has been good.

    The following motion was passed without dissent:

    MOVED hat the recommended 1977 subscription rates for AIP journals, as listed in Exhibit A, be approved.

  2. 1977 Subscription Prices for the Translated Journals

    Marks distributed recommendations for the 1977 subscription rates for Soviet translation journals (copy attached as Exhibit B). He noted the switch-over in 1977 to an annual basis and that, in 1975-76, there was no increase in subscription prices. He stated that we are going to incur increased costs in 1977 and an estimated shrinkage in subscriptions of about 4%. The recommended increases average about 10%. He said it was found that Crystallography, Doklady, Nuclear Physics, and Technical Physics needed larger increases to bring their net income into line with similar Soviet journals. No increases were proposed for the 4 new Soviet journals. The following motion was passed without dissent:

    MOVED that the recommended 1977 subscription prices for AIP translation journals, as listed in Exhibit B, be approved.

  3. Change in 1977 Page Charges

    Marks noted that only one change in page charges was being recommended for 1977 and that was that the page charge for Applied Physics Letters be increased from $80 to $90. He did not think it would work any hardship on authors since the number of pages per article is small. It is also justified in comparison with the new page charge of $100 for Physical Review Letters. The following motion, made by Fowler, was passed without dissent:

    MOVED that the publication page charge for Applied Physics Letters be increased from $80 to $90 beginning January 1, 1977.

3. Proposal for AIP to Become a Member of the American Association of Publishers

Koch reported that he has recently become acquainted with activities of the American Association of Publishers which is a trade association with members that are largely commercial organizations, but does include the American Chemical Society. Its members are mostly book publishers but it has expanded recently to include journal publishers as well. AAP has meetings and is planning a series of seminars in the fall. It is important for AIP to be aware of its activities, and our attorney has said that there would not be any problem in our belonging to a 50l(c)(6) organization. The annual dues are $1,000. Quinn added that, if the new copyright law provides for some sort of royalties to publishers as a result of photocopying, it is likely that a system will be developed and run by this organization. The following motion was passed without dissent:

MOVED that AIP become a member of the American Association of Publishers starting July l, 1976.

Related to this item, Koch thought that, in order to provide closer coupling with librarians, a committee advisory to AIP management should be set up consisting of about a half dozen librarians from industry and a half dozen librarians from nearby universities. We could discuss with them our concerns about photocopying provisions of the emerging copyright bill and get their reactions to proposals for possible royalties associated with photocopying. There were no objections to this suggestion.

4. Discussion of Nomenclature of “Page Charges” versus “Contributions for Dissemination of Information”

Gilbert stated that a number of years ago we changed our financial statements by treating page charges as contributions to the Institute and called them "Contributions for the Dissemination of Research Information." As a result, financial statements on the operations of our journals appeared to indicate large operating losses. This practice has resulted in confusion to the readers of our statements. After brief discussion, it was the consensus of the Executive Committee that the original wording should be restored. Accordingly, in the future these contributions should be treated as publication income and stated as such in the financial statements.

5. Status of Move of Stony Brook Editorial Center

Marks reported that the owner of the building in Holtsville, Long Island, where AIP was planning to rent space (see Item 5, Page 4, minutes of April 26, 1976, Executive Committee meeting) has changed the terms of the proposed lease. Instead of including all the electricity costs in the $6-per-square-foot rental informally agreed to, an escalator clause in the electric bill was inserted which, in effect, would have served to increase considerably the rental for our 12,000 square feet. AIP is now negotiating the rental of an equivalent area in nearby Holton, Long Island, at approximately the same annual rental intended for Holtsville. It would be a 6-year lease with an escape clause at the end of 3 years. If AIP decided to move at the end of 3 years, the Institute would pay $15,000 to cover changes being made at our request. If the Executive Committee approves, we would plan to move the Editorial Center into these quarters in about the first week of September. The following motion was made by Havens and passed without dissent:

MOVED that AIP be authorized to sign a lease for $72,000 per year for rental of space in the vicinity of MacArthur Airport, Holton, Long Island, for the production facilities now at Stony Brook, L. I.

6. Status of Computer Installation

Koch reported that the alterations in the basement of the AIP headquarters building are going pretty much on schedule. The computer installation has now been delayed about 2 weeks from the original schedule, but this presents no problems.

7. Report on the Status of the Ad Hoc Committee on Building Plans of AIP

Morse reported that the first meeting of this recently-formed committee has been scheduled for July 12 and 13. Fowler stated that H. R. Crane, the Chairman of the Building Plans Committee, had invited him to the meeting for the first day to supply information if needed. He did not think it would be appropriate for him to attend the second day. Morse indicated that he, too, had been invited to attend the first day. Koch added that the general plan is to have another meeting some time before the Governing Board meeting in October.

8. Report on May 28 Meeting of the Fiscal Policy Committee

Gilbert stated that the Fiscal Policy Committee considered the format of the new committee structure and dealt with the problem of a precise description of its own function. It agreed to define it as follows:

"The Committee on Fiscal Policy is responsible to the Governing Board for a continuing review of the fiscal operations of AIP and, when appropriate, recommends changes in fiscal operations. The Committee is concerned with the fiscal and financial interface between AIP and its Member Societies and provides a forum for the exchange of information on financial matters among the Member Societies."

Information on unit costs, 1975 quoted prices, and variance statements were distributed. The variance was only 0.7%, or $31,000 out of a total of over $4,000,000. The 1977 quoted prices and the major publishing expenses by Society were also reviewed.

There was a discussion of the format of AIP financial statements and AIP reserves. Gilbert referred to an attachment to the agenda for this Executive Committee meeting which contained a recommendation that the Executive Committee adopt a new policy with respect to Institute reserve funds. The Committee on Fiscal Policy discussed how AIP General Activities should be funded, and recommended the following topics for its next meeting: (1) Mechanisms for financing the General Activities of the Institute, (2) the financial implications of the decisions of the new Building Plans Committee, and (3) the desirability of providing a regular forum for the exchange of information on financial matters among the Societies. It was the consensus that the next meeting should be held in New York City just before the October Governing Board meeting.

The Executive Committee was asked to approve a new format for the balance sheet as of December 31, 1975, and also a series of resolutions concerning reserves. Establishment of a "General Reserve" had been one of the recommendations, and there was some discussion by Executive Committee members as to whether "General Reserve" is a proper description. The Institute’s auditor, Sheldon Greenberg of Conroy, Smith & Co., was invited to join the meeting briefly during which he answered some questions concerning this designation and also other matters. Upon motion made and passed without dissent, the following resolutions recommended by the Fiscal Policy Committee were adopted:

RESOLVED:

  1. That effective December 31, 1975, the operating funds of the Institute be sub-classified as "Non-restricted Funds" and "Restricted Funds."

  2. That the category of accounts classified as “Restricted Funds” shall include such assets and liabilities that have been designated as restricted by the Executive Committee, or the Governing Board.

  3. That as of December 31, 1975, the assets of the Investment Advisory Account be classified as "Restricted Funds."

  4. That, in the event the assets of the Investment Advisory Account as of December 31, 1975, or at the close of any subsequent fiscal year, are not equal to the total liabilities and/or reserves designated as "Restricted Funds," restrictions shall be placed on "Non-restricted Funds,” sufficient to effect such equality and as soon as practicable thereafter, said assets shall be transferred to the Investment Advisory Account.

  5. That the following reserves be designated as "Restricted Funds," to be used for the purposes indicated.

    1. Building Reserve – to provide for replacement of real property owned by the Institute and used in its operations and/or acquisition of additional property to be used in its operations. Such reserve shall, as of the end of each annual fiscal period, equal or exceed the accumulated depreciation on buildings and improvements thereto owned by the Institute and used in its operations.

    2. Equipment Reserve – to provide for replacement of furniture and equipment owned by the Institute and used in its operations and/or acquisition of additional furniture and equipment to be used in its operations. Such reserve shall, as of the end of each annual fiscal period, equal or exceed the accumulated depreciation on furniture and equipment owned by the Institute and used in its operations.

    3. Publications Reserve – to provide for the Institute’s obligations to fulfill its commitment to subscribers to publish all subscribed journals fur the remainder of any subscription period. Amounts to be transferred to such reserve shall be designated by the Executive Committee and shall be reviewed annually to determine the adequacy of such Reserve.

    4. General Reserve – to provide for such start-up costs of new publications, new member programs, ventures into new or different areas and programs in furtherance of the purposes of the Institute and contingencies as may, from time to time, be authorized by the Executive Committee. Amounts to be transferred to such reserve shall be designated by the Executive Committee and shall be reviewed annually to determine the adequacy of such reserve.

  6. That as of December 31, 1975, there be transferred from Accumulated Income an amount sufficient to bring the balances in the Building Reserve and the Equipment Reserve into equality with the amounts appearing in the "Accumulated Depreciation – Building and Improvements" and "Accumulated Depreciation – Furniture and Equipment" accounts respectively on that date. In addition, there shall be transferred from "Accumulated Income" an amount of $50,000 to establish the General Reserve.

Quinn asked whether Special Purpose Funds should not be part of the Investment Advisory Account. Gilbert replied that the Investment Advisory Account is an Institute reserve to back up the Building and Equipment Reserve. Special Purpose Funds were restricted to specific uses at the time they were acquired.

9. Report on May 12 Meeting of the Publishing Policy Committee

  1. Brief Report on Meeting

    Marks reported that only four members of the subject committee were able to attend the May 12 meeting. The most important agenda item was consideration of a proposal to purchase a photocopier. The members present also discussed copyright policy, masthead listings, simultaneous publication in Soviet Physics-Uspekhi and Reviews of Modern Physics, review supplements in the Journal of Applied Physics, and report of the Ad Hoc Committee on The Review of Scientific Instruments. Two documents pertinent to the meeting, "A Proposal on Computer Typesetting for AIP" and "Proposal to Purchase a Phototypesetter" were mailed to Executive Committee members on June 18.

  2. Proposal for Purchase of Computer-Based Compositions Equipment

    The outcome of the discussion of this item was arequest that the subject proposal be brought to the Executive Committee for consideration and approval, contingent upon its being reviewed at the forthcoming meeting of the full Publishing Policy Committee scheduled for July 22. Swartz asked what led to this change in attitude, since at a previous meeting the Publishing Policy Committee ended up thinking that the Institute should wait a little longer before getting involved in computer photocomposition of full articles. Marks replied that the actual cost was difficult to pinpoint at that time. Very high prices were being quoted. Since then, Mack Printing has developed their package and quoted prices competitive with typewriter composition. In addition, the Bell Laboratories UNIX-TROFF system has been developed and shows promise for an operation like Physical Review Letters. The American Physical Society is going to conduct an experiment on that. APS is not proposing the installation of a full-blown computer-based photocomposition system.

    Marks noted that AIP is composing 15,000 pages per year under contract by a supplier. We can justify the purchase of acomputer photocomposer that would be suitable for the future and amortize it over 5 years on the basis of the existing workload. The phototypesetter (Autologic APS-5) and accessories will cost about $150,000. The staff would like the Executive Committee to authorize an expenditure for this equipment not to exceed $160,000. Between now and the time of the Governing Board meeting we will know where it should be installed. We have room for it at 800 Second Avenue and propose to have it running by January 1977. We feel computer photocomposition is going to be the low-cost way of composing our journals.

    Quinn asked how this program fits into the building plans. He expressed enthusiasm about the idea but wondered whether AIP has the money. Marks replied that we have parts which can be located adjacent to one another. We can service the composer in New York City with keyboarding on Long Island and have on-line access for last-minute corrections. Koch added that he did not think this would have any impact on the purchase of a building. We would probably have to borrow money anyhow and another $150,000 is not going to be that significant. Havens agreed that our important problem is with operating funds. He believed this has the potential of decreasing the operating costs of the journals. In addition, it is beneficial for the Institute to have an in-house operation so it can judge the bids of its suppliers. Gilbert remarked that the money would come from our Reserve for Replacement of Equipment and the next time we make income, we can adjust that Reserve.

    The following motion was introduced by Beyer, seconded by Fowler, and passed without dissent:

    MOVED that the Executive Committee approve the purchase of the proposed equipment as described by Marks, at a cost not to exceed $160,000, contingent on approval by the Publishing Policy Committee at its July meeting.

10. Report on June 7 Meeting of Advisory Committee on Corporate Associates

Koch reported that the principal result of the meeting of the Advisory Committee was the decision on the next annual meeting of the Corporate Associates. It is set for November 8 and 9, and the location will be the General Motors Research Laboratory in Warren, Michigan, which he and Lasky had visited prior to the meeting. The theme will be Physics in Industry. There will be a session the first morning on Industrial Research Today, and that afternoon will be divided into two parts: "Applications of Physics" and a tour of the research laboratory. In the evening, a reception and dinner with an after-dinner speaker. The next morning there will be several smaller group discussions, followed by an additional session on "Applications of Physics." In the afternoon a session will be held on "Frontiers of Physics." Frank Jamerson, the Chairman of the Advisory Committee, and Koch are lining up speakers.

The Advisory Committee also made a proposal and suggested that it be tried out on the Executive Committee for an AIP award for outstanding contributions to industrial applications of physics. It might be $5,000 and be given once a year. The committee also endorsed the proposal to permit free photocopying of articles in AIP journals to our Corporate Associates for 1977, when certain specified conditions are met. There was strong endorsement for the Visiting Physicists Program which Millman operates under the auspices of the APS Committee on Education, and a possible expansion going more in the direction of the earlier NSF-funded Visiting Scientists Program.

Concerning the proposed award, Koch said that if the Executive Committee is not opposed in principle, the Advisory Committee would come back with a specific proposal. The award would not necessarily be given to a scientist in industry but would emphasize industrial applications. Havens noted that the APS Committee on Applications of Physics also recommended an award. He also felt that if it is intended to be awarded at the Corporate Associates meeting, the advertising value is negligible. Fowler agreed that we should aim for big publicity. Fowler suggested that AIP look into the California "Industrialist of the Year Award."

Millman added that the Advisory Committee also discussed briefly some of Fowler's ideas for a Center for Physics and, particularly, a display by Corporate Associate members. The committee felt that this might be a good topic for discussion at one of the small panel meetings. The committee members felt that it is a good idea but it should not be used to ask the Corporate Associates for more money. The committee also gave its blessing to a proposal by Professor Chandrasekhar of Case Western Reserve University to organize regional meetings between the industrial and academic communities under the auspices of APS.

Koch then distributed revised copies of his proposed Licensing Agreement for Photocopying of Journal Pages by AIP Corporate Associate Members (copy attached as Exhibit C). He said he would discuss implementation of such an agreement with the library group (referred to in Item 3 on Page 4 of these minutes). If the Executive Committee gives its approval for AIP journals, he would then go to the Member Societies for similar approval with respect to their journals. Morse suggested that we add a statement that "Requests for exceptions to these conditions should be directed to the AIP." Havens thought that APS would probably go along with this. The only journal that would worry him would be Reviews of Modern Physics. Quinn expressed some concern about making an agreement prior to knowing the outcome of the pending copyright bill. He also stated that the Optical Society of America has its own corporation members and expected that they will probably ask for similar rights. He asked whether AIP will give rights to copy from its journals to these OSA corporation members. Koch saw no reason why AIP should not. The following motion was passed without dissent:

MOVED that the proposed licensing agreement with members of the AIP Corporate Associates be approved now as an interim measure for implementation in 1977.

11. Report on Actions at the June Meeting of the APS Executive Committee

Koch reported that one action item of direct relevance to AIP was the approval by the APS Executive Committee of the sale to AIP of the new typewriters it owns at the Stony Brook facility, while retaining title to the older ones that have already been amortized, in order to make this composition activity available to other AIP and Member Society journals. The price would be approximately $39,000 for 16 typewriters and attachments, and we would propose to depreciate them over a 2-year period. Koch added that, if this proposal is approved, we should cancel our supplement to the service agreement we have with APS covering their exclusive interest in this production facility. The following motion, made by Fredrick, was passed without dissent:

MOVED that AIP purchase the new typewriters at Stony Brook which are currently owned by APS at a price of approximately $39,000, in order to accommodate other Member Society and AIP journals in addition to those of APS; with the understanding that APS will retain title to the older typewriters even though they may be used by AIP.

The following motion was then made by Quinn and also passed without dissent:

MOVED that the supplement to the service agreement between APS and AIP be cancelled.

The meeting was adjourned for luncheon at 12:45 p.m. and reconvened at 1:15 p.m.

Koch resumed his report on the recent meeting of the APS Executive Committee. He stated that Norman Ramsey gave a brief report on a Center for Physics, on a new building, and on costs in general. APS feels their requirements in such a Center are quite modest. They can see some value in having a Center for Physics but are not overly enthusiastic because of the question of costs. A Manhattan location seems desirable. We must keep costs down. They requested a statement from R. W. Sears on how the Engineering trustees and joint ownership of their building work.

Koch also reported that he played a recording of Slack’s reading of a proposed press release on the super-heavy element. The APS Executive Committee felt that the press release should be issued and that the wording was quite acceptable. Koch commented that he found his participation in that meeting very helpful and urged the other Member Societies to invite him or other AIP officers to attend their respective meetings for at least part of the time. He felt that it is very helpful to AIP, and thought that AIP in turn could provide some input that could be useful to the Societies. Fowler agreed and thought it is a very fine thing that Koch is willing to attend the meetings, and recommended it to the other Societies.

12. Preliminary Thoughts on Center for Physics

Koch reported that Professor Alex Harvey has been at AIP headquarters since June 1. Up to now he has been gathering information on two major ingredients of a possible Center for Physics: (1) Local and regional impact primarily of interest to the Societies and their members, lecture halls and exhibit areas, a contemporary library, walk-in help for students, and a book store. This tends to be a very costly thing, and probably should be de-emphasized. (2) The national and international impact — radio and TV. The Societies and AIP increasingly are involved in a smaller and smaller fraction of totality. More and more information is in report form and data files of various sorts. We are involved in the production of journals and bibliographic files producing abstracts. He is looking to the role of such a Center in serving as a communications center with access to these other files for non-AIP and Society literature. If we were to attempt to provide copies for distribution nationally maybe we could make an arrangement with some of the local libraries such as the New York Public Library and the Engineering Library so that we would not have to have these facilities here. He noted that Frank Oppenheimer has, at the University of Colorado, exhibits appropriate for the Center.

The conclusions would appear to be that we should not think in terms of any major investments, since the Societies are unwilling to commit large funds. Fowler thought some modest increase for every one of these activities was clearly favored by APS, but there are not many people who feel the members of APS would vote to tax themselves for this.

Koch expects to review this topic in greater detail at the September Executive Committee meeting.

13. Revised Roster of New Committees

Slack reported that the committee roster is now complete, and a copy is attached to these minutes as Exhibit D.

14. Charging for Press Relations Services at Meetings

Slack raised the question of charging for Press Relations at meetings where a Member Society is one of two or more organizations that jointly sponsor a topical conference, such as the Conference on Lasers and ElectroOptics held in San Diego, of which the Optical Society was one of the sponsoring organizations. Should AIP charge in such a case for full services as distinct from the incremental charges we have recently instituted for meetings involving only AIP Member Societies? The out-of-pocket expenses are in the range of $1,000 to $2,000 per meeting depending on the travel distance. The appropriate salary difference might be of the order of $1,000. Quinn estimated that this cost for the CLEOS meeting would be $1,500 if one included salaries and about one-half that amount if incremental costs only were covered. Morse suggested that this subject be discussed at length at the September Executive Committee meeting and that it would be well to provide good estimates on what the full costs are.

15. Topics for the September 8-11 Executive Committee Meeting

Morse suggested that we do not try to cover too many subjects but concentrate on a few important ones so as to allow ample time for discussion. It might be well to choose topics that, in the next year or two, will be crucial for AIP operations. Anything from the Building Plans Committee will certainly be appropriate for discussion. Other topics might be: additional costs in Public Relations, a Center for Physics, results of the APS Summer Study on Manpower, AIP involvement in secondary services, and expansion of Public Relations activities. Havens suggested that we might discuss the results of a survey as to where physicists go if they do not go into academia, and any indications of the future manpower needs for physicists. Koch thought that we should go into housekeeping details on the new committee structure, such as the timing and reporting to the Governing Board.

16. Translation of Soviet Books

Koch referred to a previous report to the Executive Committee (meeting of June 12, 1975) on the options AIP received from the Soviets for translating and publishing two Soviet books in acoustics. It now appears that the Office of Naval Research is proceeding to publish them without getting permission from anybody. Koch therefore proposed that we drop the AIP options. Upon motion made and passed without dissent, it was agreed to drop the options.

17. Resolution re Endorsement of Checks

Gilbert reported that AIP has trouble endorsing checks it receives which are made to the order of any of the 9 Societies, all the publications, meetings, and conferences. This led Bankers Trust Company to suggest a resolution which states that AIP will guarantee all endorsements on checks made out to those accounts. Upon motion made and passed, the following resolution was adopted:

WHEREAS, the Corporation has various Member Societies and is authorized and entitled to deposit checks payable to Member Societies, publications, meetings, and conferences sponsored by Member Societies in the conduct of the business of this Corporation; and

WHEREAS, it would serve the best interests of this Corporation to conduct portions of its business operations under the aforesaid names under the supervision, management, and control of the officers and directors of this Corporation.

NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS

RESOLVED, that any and all checks and other instruments or orders for payment of money, which are drawn or made payable to Member Societies, publications, meetings, and conferences sponsored by Member Societies, be deposited to the credit of any demand deposit account or accounts maintained in the name of this Corporation at Bankers Trust Company (herein called the ‘Bank’) and, for the purpose of inducing the Bank to accept such deposits, any officer of this Corporation is hereby authorized and directed to execute and deliver to the Bank; said agreement to be in such form and to contain such provisions as such officer shall deem necessary and proper, the necessity and propriety thereof to be conclusively evidenced by his execution and delivery of such agreement.

18. Report on Trip to England and France by Koch

Koch reported that AIP now has developed agreements together with the ICSU Abstracting Board working group in physics on the 1977 scheme. Physics Abstracts has agreed to use it; they are interested additionally in providing modifiers. Physikalische Berichte’s system is identical to ours. Physikalische Berichte have a delegation coming here on July 13 to talk about our SPIN tape. He discussed with Derek Barlow of the Institution of Electrical Engineers the Morse letter to Merriman. He said he still feels they would like to be able to add additional information like patent numbers. The British talk of a "Euronet" with some 7,000 terminals. They do not want to depend on an American supplier.

Koch also reported that he visited the British Lending Library which is situated 200 miles north of London. The whole purpose of this Library is to photocopy and distribute articles on request. They claim the largest journal and book holdings in all of Europe and receive two million requests for copies per year, and the requests are going up exponentially. He believes that we are going to see this kind of facility spring up in the various countries in Europe and in the United States. There is a plan in the USA to develop a national copying facility of the same sort. There is going to develop some kind of licensing-royalty scheme.

19. Next Meeting of the Governing Board & Assembly of Society Officers

It was agreed to hold the Assembly of Society Officers and fall meeting of the AIP Governing Board in New York City on October 8 and 9, 1976.

The meeting was adjourned at 2:40 p.m.