Science and state

Early interest in physics. Education and career prior to joining JASON: two years in the Royal Air Force; switch from mathematics to physics after the war; enrollment at Cornell University in 1947; difference between American and British physics. Exposure to science policy (Federation of Atomic Scientists, Philip Morrison); U.S. citizen 1957. Motivation for joining JASON; JASON work vs. work in Arms Control and Disarmament Agency; work on active optics in JASON; technical tasks vs. policy advice; Oregon Trail; availability of JASON bibliography; public profile of JASON members; divisions within JASON; other science policy activities; reasons for leaving JASON. Also prominently mentioned are: Abraham S. Besicovich; Columbia University, General Atomic Company, Nike-X (Missile), United States Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and University of Birmingham.

In this interview, David Zierler, Oral Historian for AIP, interviews Walter Massey, chairman of the board of the Giant Magellan Telescope organization. Massey describes his childhood in segregated Mississippi and his academic achievements that led to his admission to Morehouse College from the 10th grade. He describes his developing interest in physics during a formative summer program at Columbia, which convinced him that he could compete at high levels. Massey describes his graduate work at Washington University and how he came to be a student of Eugene Feenberg, who was working on correlated basis functions to many-body physics problems. He discusses his postdoctoral work at Argonne Laboratory and his interest in becoming involved in civil rights issues in the late 1960s, when he became a professor at the University of Illinois. Massey describes his subsequent tenure at Brown, where he focused on mixtures of helium-3 and helium 4 and on the problem of sound dispersion. He discusses the impact of an ACE fellowship which led to his work in the chancellor’s office at UC Santa Cruz, which in turn changed the course of his career trajectory toward policy. Massey describes his tenure at the University of Chicago, his directorship at Argonne, and how he worked through the existential challenge of nuclear energy following the Three Mile Island disaster. He explains his decision to accept an offer to head the National Science Foundation and how he grappled with creating a national science policy in a post-Cold War world. He discusses his work in support of the LIGO project and he explains his decision to lead Morehouse College after a brief appointment with the University of California. Massey reflects on his accomplishment at Morehouse, and he describes the ways the college had changed since his time there as a student. At the end of the interview, Massey discusses his work on the board of Bank of America and for the School of Art Institute of Chicago, and he discusses some of the ongoing challenges and areas of improvement to pursue in promoting diversity in the sciences. 

Professor Kitazawa recalls his earlier experience of studying and working both in United States and in Japan.  He gives a detailed description about the research work of high Tc superconductivity in Japan from 1970 -1987, especially about some important events in the researcher of high Tc superconductivity that happened after the Bednorz and Muller discovery, which involved American, Japanese and Chinese scientists.  He also gives some comments on the science policy and R&D of superconductivity in Japan, United States and China.

Topics include:  his family and early education; his decision to attend Cambridge University and Kings College; the impact of WWII on his education; his Naval experiences; his post-war education; getting into geophysics; work on seismic refraction at sea; his dissertation work on the velocity of sound through the sea-bottom sedimentation; obtaining a Fulbright scholarship to go to U.S. where he spent one year at Lamont-Doherty Earth Observation; work with deep-sea camera; work with Bruce Heezen; comparison of Lamont with Scripps Institution of Oceanography; work leading to the gradual acceptance of sea-floor spreading; his work at National Institute of Oceanography; studies related to sea-floor spreading; comparison of British and American standards for classification of data; the Indian Ocean Expedition and its importance to the theory of sea floor spreading; his research vessel, Discovery;  reactions to the work of Vine and Matthews; his work in the Gulf of Aden; Soviet ships and style of research; recollections of Russian scientist Gleb Udintsev; participation on the Atlantic Panel and participation on international programs and committees; comparison of the NIO to Lamont; the British government's support for research; the Rothschild report; differences between applied and strategic research; submarine detection work; creating government science policy; negotiations on the 3rd Law of the Sea; radioactive waste disposal.

Family history and educational background; undergraduate degree from University of California Los Angeles (1924-1927); PhD from University of California Berkeley (1927-1931); orbit computing with A. O. Leuschner; thesis work at Lick Observatory with Donald Menzel; work at Harvard College Observatory (1931-1955); with Harlow Shapley, Donald Menzel, Annie Jump Cannon, Antonia Maury, Bart Bok, Leon Campbell, Cecelia Payne Gaposchkin; comets and meteors; radio astronomy; Super Schmidt meteor camera project (1948); Director of the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory (1955-1973); science fiction authors, especially Arthur C. Clarke; Moonwatch project, Armand and Grace Spitz; military and science funding; Multi-mirror telescope with A. B. Meinel; "icy comet" model.

York's involvement in science policy, particularly JASON; types of science policies and science policy advisors: consultants and officials; role of physicists. Origins of JASON: roles played by John Wheeler, Eugene Wigner, Oscar Morgenstern (Project 137); comparison with other science advisory groups; relations with Institute for Defense Analysis (IDA); preservation of the history of JASON (MITRE Corporation, Advanced Research Projects Agency [ARPA]); prominence and influence of JASON members; JASON science policy; technical advice and technical conclusions; shift of power from academic to industrial physics. Also prominently mentioned are: Lou Allen, Harold Brown, Keith Allan Brueckner, Ed David, Lee DuBridge, John Foster, Marvin Goldberger, James Killian, George Kistiakowski, Oscar Morgenstern, William Nierenberg, Charles Schwartz, Marvin Stern, Charles Townes, Felix von Kármán, Jerome Wiesner; and President's Science Advisory Committee.

Views on the Strategic Defense Initiative of the Reagan era; concerns about destabilization of defense capabilities; development of defensive technology including laser weapons and particle beams; advances in computer technology; Ronald Reagan's Address to the Nation of March 23, 1983; Edward Teller's involvement; strategic perspectives on defense systems, defense budget, nuclear weapons, technological developments and superiority, unilateral disarmament, Soviet war policy.

Discusses how he initially became involved in JASON; comments on his motivation for joining JASON and what he learned while working on practical physics problems. Describes his anti-Vietnam war stance and working in JASON during the war. Systematically describes articles written while working on JASON, as long as they are unclassified. Describes how he thinks JASON work added to his work in physics. Explains why he quit working for JASON; discusses the lack of feedback concerning the impact of JASON work on defense problems. Comments on a possible amateur/professional distinction with JASON.

Early education and exposure to field; attends Duke University; graduate work at California Institute of Technology; Caltech environment; work with Smythe; develops interest in spectroscopy. Accepts position at Bell Laboratories; shift from research to engineering; attempts to pursuade Bell Labs to become involved in microwave spectroscopy. Impact of war on development of spectroscopy and physics in general. Interest in astronomy. Accepts I. I. Rabi's job offer at Columbia; work conditions at Columbia versus Bell Labs. Forms advisory committee on millimeter waves; on Navy committee for infrared radiation; feelings about committee work. Work on service advisory committees prior to position as director of research at the Institute for Defense Analysis (IDA). Involvement in Office of Naval Research (ONR) committees on millimeter waves and infrared radiation; purpose and outcome of work, including development of maser concept; participation in non-service advisory committees; work at Brookhaven National Laboratory. Acceptance of IDA position; circumstances and considerations involved; views on direction of IDA. Involvement in establishing JASON?establishing clearances, convincing Pentagon. JASON organizational structure; selection of projects and members; extent of Townes' own involvement in projects; impact of JASON on government advising and social policy.

Youth and early education; undergraduate at Amherst; graduate work at MIT. Work with various laboratories: MIT, Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, and Fermilab. Involvement in JASON, ca. 1960-1973: projects, question of impact. Involvement with Union of Concerned Scientists, from 1969: creation and main projects; nuclear energy; nuclear arms control; achievements.